My partner and I bought a small woodland in wales earlier this year.
We first visited it in march in the mild weather,it has it’s own private track which is impassible by ordinary car, so we had to buy an old shogun to get to the woods.
The woods are wonderfull. They have’nt been touched since 2001, which means we’ve got our work cut out for a bit.
There’s a smallish pond there and the wildlife is brilliant, all sorts of frogs and toads and huge dragonflys that just fly up to you, take a look and fly off,not to mention the birds. The robins stay close so they can pick up the insects you disturb.
Anyway,I digress,
I’ve managed to buy a static caravan on a site 15 miles from them, also a trailer a farm quad and some tools.
I sold my small house to buy all this lot and it was well worth it, but i am hopefully going to move down there soon when my partner sells his house.
We need a tool shed so we are going to make one from all the logs we get from opening up the pathways, which have all been grown over and we are going to hide it in a windy path down to a small clearing.
There is no public right of way and I do’nt want anybody on there unless i invite them, go buy some flash clothes or something but keep off my land.
Yours sincerly, Mike.

Hi Barry

I like the way you think, life is very hard for the working class and I am one of them’
Raised in a Council House by hard working parents, we were always told if you work hard and respect other people – you will achieve whatever is your dream,

You are 100% correct no community landownership, all land as far back as day dot, was always considered as the property of tribes, Kings,and big men.

Nowadays if we were not lucky to be given land by relatives of the above, we have to work hard to pay for it, This does not give every loser in the UK the right to tell us what we can and cannot do on our land. If they feel they need to relate to the land they will need to go to the local Council Park and hug the trees there, and jump all over the plants and fences, drop litter and let their dog foul the paths and grass, let’s see what the council will do??
They will end up in Court – so why should we let the very same people on to our land.

Regards
Robert

By the way – I’m an archaeologist and anthropologist by profession. I studied land tenure ancient and modern – I’ve written about it (journal articles and books) and I can tell you there is no community landownership. Land and rights to land have always been appropriated by elites. Even in ancient hunter gatherer times someone had the final say so about when and where to hunt, tribes negotiated rights to hunt ‘common ground’, land perceived as unowned was accessed by marriage for example. Into the Neolithic, Big Men owned it – and ‘common’ hunting ground was negotiated. Again, another idealistic slant on the past and other cultures.
You can attempt to throw Aboriginal Australia at me if you want, i spent alot of time studying rock-art there, and can tell you that even here there are and were complex intertribal negotiations centred around mythology for accessing land that looks very similar to ownership by chiefs etc. Don’t make up what you think you know.

Hi All
I’m somewhat bemused by some of the postings here. I came on to read about permitted development and sheds in woodland etc.
Now, I’m a landowner, I also believe in the publics ‘right to roam’ – to a point. It’s clearly not appropriate that people can go anywhere for all sorts of reasons, ie because of crops being grown, I own a coupe of vineyards for example and I’m happy for people to walk around these when they are supervised etc., I mean kids do like to pull at the grapes and many parents don’t stop them. So there’s one example – there are many many others.
Now, banking: not everyone owns land so it’s the fault of the banking system? Eh?
Socialist ideals about ‘land should be owned by the people’are all well and good but are only posited by those who, for whatever reason, bad career choices, unwillingness to work or to work hard enough to achieve and even just bad luck or being dealt a bad hand in life. Sorry ole bean but if you take the incentive away from those of us industrious enough to work and make money and pay taxes (and I don’t mind paying reasonable taxes) then the utopia you dream of cannot happen because nobody will work for it for you.
We all know what grows a tree. I think you need to think carefully about the ideals of socialist politics – it’s too easy my friend.
Now back to sheds – I’ve got an orchard where I think a wee nicely constructed ciderhouse is in order.

Hi David

I have looked at your ideas and can not agree with you, my land back in 1800s was a nothing but a feild the C/England had it planted as a working woodland and was never cut

As for my land it is working very well almost natural as man has left it to its own

I worked for 18 yrs in the daserts and on uninhabited Islands driling for oil for the populace of the U/K and paying full U/K tax and N/Ins, as for the land belongs to us all this is the type of coment only comes from those how have chosen to spend thier cash on more inposing items like ( Fast Cars, Flash Holidays, Beer, Having a good time,) where I chose the later. cash well spent and sill planing to build up my stock of land,

I have an offer being conciderd on a 37 acres Plot in cheshire pending having the bridel way closed or I am not intrested in this land.

Robert.

Robert

Robert, Patrick, Thanks for your comments.

I know this is a challenging concept! It raises a LOT of hackles, because everyone wants to ‘Own’ something for security and peace of mind.

Over 90% of the land in this country in owned by less than 10% of the population…

There are many points you have both raised, that require further discussion

So in brief:

In Scotland, we have the right to Roam. (respectfully) So I do find the English Law of Land Privacy rather bemusing also!

Did you grow the trees? NO! The Earth did and She belongs to ALL of us, (and Our Children.)

With regard to taxes paying for the community, this is true, and necessary in a debt based financial system, with no land tithe. (google ‘fractional reserve lending’.)

We as a populace have been well conned by Banks, and continue to be…

As a concept, the a land owning community is the natural way (and the tribal way, stamped out by and large by colonial Britain.)

Look wider at what ‘private ownership does and is doing to the world.

Is it working? I think not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPx5r35Aymc

David

My Land was purchased with cash which I had to work very hard and long for,which I paid many thousends of pounds to the Tax Man which in turn funds the community. If you have a house with a large garden and worked hard to get it ( How would you feal if gangs of peaple climbed over your fence and started picking your flowers and trampling down your grass, dropping litter all-over the place, using it as a public W/C.

Get real mate, I have 75 acres of mature woodland with no public right of way, the land was purchesd form the C of England, in 2008 for £250,000 as you can now see I did not inherit this land and have no intentions of letting anybody trespass on it at all.

And if i feel I want to build a tree house or shed on this land i will, this is no other persons business if this will offend them it is simple they are trespassing and causing criminal damage and i will prosecute every time. i Have notices all around my land Private Keep Out.

Come on, David. I own my garden, fenced, with a back gate onto a footpath, and I don’t expect to see uninvited guests wandering about in it, nor would you. I also own (sorry if the word offends you) 5 acres of ancient woodland with a public footpath along one side. It isn’t fenced and nor will it be (I hate ‘private, keep out’ notices as much as you do). If people walk through it without damaging anything, that’s OK by me too – but it is my choice. I pay £120 p.a. public liability, so that protection isn’t free. I keep some (cheap) tools, hardhats etc. under a camo tarp, but their security does concern me and we were having a useful discussion about storage …

This is an Interesting topic.

I find the whole concept of land/woodland ‘ownership’ fundamentally wrong. How land can be owned privately is one of major flaws in our society. (And a large blind spot for most people, as it is an inherent given in our culture from birth.)

Land should be Community owned, and a rent or tithe paid back to the community, on a yearly basis. (on a sliding dependant on the lands workable value.)

This would abolish the need for ALL taxes and return Community to the forefront of society.

Further reading:

‘The poor had no lawyers’ by Andy Whiteman.

‘Stolen land – stolen lives’ By Shirley Anne Hardy.
http://www.schalkenbach.org/store.php?crn=78&rn=664&action=show_detail

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_rent#Land_rent

FORESTRY. So it seems you need 5 acres to be allowed 28 days sleep on your own land after a long days work. How much is allowed if you only own one acre ?

AGRICULTURE. It seems that IF your land is also used for Agriculture then further allowances are allowed. Anybody know what they are ?

It seems that seasonal work like picking farmed berries..fruits…vegetables ? MAY allow those involved in the work to sleep on the land for the length of the picking season ? Anybody have knowledge on this ?

Anybody love treehouses ? [email protected]

Having an opinion about what others do with their land (containers/caravans) is a very dangerous and slippery slope. We now live in a world where peoples garden can be inspected . We will soon be in a situation where if somebody doesnt like the color of your garage door or the state of your car on your own drive..controll measures may be ENFORCED.

Enforcement is the main issue to be avoided because imho freehold is not free and you cant hold it if it is registered land. imho Registering relieves you of ownership and you become defacto tenant with no rights other than granted by statute etc. Look in a court LAW dictionary the word ‘register’. You may be surprised to learn that imho ‘your’ land has nothing to do with you. Black is best. But hey..we can still do stuff..like…..

Since Trees eat carbon dioxide and produce oxygen imho we need to plant billions of them everywhere. Instead of being asked for proof of ID we need to be asked for proof that we have a sabling on us. Burning wood to create electricity and heat without polution was developed by gasification over 100 years ago. In WWII millions of cars were running on wood gas..mainly in scandanavian countries. Using wood in this way is my passion ..oh and Treehouses also !!!

I just cant find my own mature wood. can anyone help or give me some ideas OTHER than infernet ? Surrey/Sussex.

Interested parties PLEASE contact me. [email protected]

Anne.
I have 75 acres of land with on public right of way – what gives you the right to have any say in how I manage it.
if you are that concerned about preserving countryside, put your money where your mouth is and purchase some land.
Until then keep your unwarranted comments to yourself , just once again like all the rest of “the won’t something for nothing gang” and think they have the wright to have a say in it’s operation . If I found any of your people on my land trampling down plants and and climbing on fencing, I would call the police and have you arrested for criminal damage
Private land is private, do you understand

Can anyone tell me why its not practical to respond to a) aesthetic objections, and b)security issues, by simply building a small log cabin (within the allowed dimensions) directly from surrounding materials? Another possibilty would be a ‘sheperds hut’ on 4 wheels, towed into the woodland but still theoretically movable. These can be pretty robust from the point of view of security.

http://watertowerwood.blogspot.com/2011/03/small-woods-association.html
I bought approx 1 acre of woodland some years ago. We already owned an adjacent plot which was suitable for building. Now we have some structures in the woodland which are sympathetic to woodland but we still needed planning permission because we are in a conservation area. Permitted development rights being removed in any conservation area. However, the extent of the woodland works stretched to paths, handrails and a screen put up to hide works to broaden a path. All seemed to be taking things a bit far in planning terms but we complied and submitted. For a myriad of non planning reasons we were refused permission and we are now at appeal stage.

The link above takes you to the most relevant part of a blog site that I created. I took an extract from the Small Woods Assoc to consider justification for a wooden store with a decked top used for storage and also to sit out on and appreciate the views. I think any store in a woodland should be sympathetic to its surrounds.

looking into Forest ownership and having read all these fascinating comments with great interest I was wondering how something like the wood buildings in the link below would fit in with the overall non permanent wooden shed construct on wheels for using as a temporary storage and very removable overnight place to stay as long as it could not be seen or cause any concerns as a permanent construct, being a tow-able construct of all wood fabrication, your comments would be greatly appreciated

Please click the link for Tumbleweed constructs http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/houses/weebee/

Paul

We bought a 40 acre wood three years ago, untouched since the 87 storm. It was a dead mess. My husband (and the family at weekends) has worked tirelessly to clear rides, create glades, plant trees, put in a pond, its a bit like the Forth Bridge, but the results are fantastic with huge increases of wild flowers and insect and bird life. The grants pay for the chain saw diesel, just about… my husband’s 20-30 hours of labour per week are not! He has put in a container painted a dull green and though not ideal its not terrible, it is vital for storing equipment. We have friends, whose chain saws and other equipment has been stolen and vandalised in shed, uninsurable and in one case has totally destroyed somebody’s livelyhood- and actually now containers with huge locks are being broken in to. There are two footpaths at either end of our wood and we ask people to stick to the path, we don’t want people wandering about uninvited -we wouldn’t wander round their gardens! The assumption that its some kind of free for all pleasure park when there are exceptionally good footpaths is frustrating. And on those public footpaths, a weekend doesn’t go by when I don’t have to pick up litter/ sweet papers, or having cleared part of a stream, people have kicked wood back into it or at one point broken part of a bridge. There are practicaliities involved with working woodlands, managing them are labours of love, it doesn’t pay, and that dedication should get all our support.

Dear Anne,
I understand your fear that tool sheds could be used by some people as “quasi holiday homes” and your fear of restrictions on access where there are public access rights. However the position really isn’t quite as simple as you are suggesting – you clearly value woodlands but don’t you want to see them managed? You surely don’t want tracks to be overgrown, dangerous trees to be hanging over public footpaths, fencing to deteriorate so that sheep eat out the wildlife floor, do you?

Woodlands need management in order to remain valuable for wildlife and for people. Charitable organisations and the Forestry Commission do a lot of this management but they do that on the land they own and their resources are over-stretched as it is. On privately-owned woodland such management is generally loss-making but many do it anyway, especially owners of small woodlands where the area they have to manage is not overwhelming. But in practice they do need tools and shelter.

The law does indeed need changing in various ways but mainly to make it easier for owners of woodland to do the managing. I’m suggesting we should “Give them the tools and they’ll finish the job” not constrain them so much that they are “given the the job and we’ve finished the tools”

I find the ‘ it is your land’, build a shed and if others don’t lie it – ‘tuff’ (sic) comment, really worrying. The unspoiled woodlands of Britain should be freely available to all. We don’t want padlocked gates and quasi holiday homes pretending to be tool stores, along with ‘get off my land’ residents, taking ownership of our countryside.
There are extremely strict planning rules adhering to residential ownership of wild rural areas and I can’t believe they don’t also apply to the kind of woodland being sold here. The law obviously needs to be toughened up, for the common good.

What’s the general perception regarding suitably and carefully designed tree houses. Is there a loop hole in the law regaring this?

Why do all you people worry about what other people think if they do not lie your shed ? tuff – first of all they should not be on your land. If you wount to build a timber store on your land and it does not exceed 32 sq m in total and the roof is not over 4 metres at its pinnacle and at least 5 metres away from any other building, you can build one. If you want to stay over night in it that is fine, so-long as it is not used as a permanent residence. Remember when you paid your cash for the land – it is yours, this is the law.

I have pondered long and hard on what sort of shed to use. The main aspect for me was to provide a secure secure storage for my tools. This shed fits all my criteria and the fact you can easily take them down is a bonus. However, they are expensive.

http://www.extraspace.co.uk/expandarange/expandastore/introduction/

Martin

Angus
No, I don’t currently own a wood – so your experience clearly makes you better qualified to comment. Didn’t mean to criticise negatively the great work you are doing to protect the UK’s woodlands. As a concerned observer, I was just surprised and a little disappointed that your site seemed to advocate containers and caravans, which, if multiplied across the country could lead to some ugly and long-term eyesores in our beautiful woodlands. But I 100% agree that you have to take practical measures against theft and vandalism. Perhaps you could just adjust your advice and encourage owners to paint their structures brown/green and grow ivy or other vegetation over them?
Andrew

Andrew,
Yes, we agree with both the sentiments that ugly structures are bad and that this should not be the thin end of the wedge for other developments. However, after 23 years of woodland management throughout the UK we have experienced the problems – it is very frustrating if you do not have the right equipment available and if you suffer repeated break-ins and thefts. Whilst wooden structures are generally our preference also there are locations where the only effective antidote to casual theft and vandalism is a steel container. It is a pity, but this solution is probably better than abandoning the use and management of these woodlands. Do you manage a woodland and how do you cope with storage and shelter?
best wishes,
Angus

I approached my Council, had to pay £60 and submit sketch plans so they could tell me that the planned shed was allowable under permitted development and didn’t require planning permission. A bit of hassle, but at least I have it in writing that my shed is accepted. Perhaps the fact we are working on a five year plan to re-stock under BWW helps prove we needed the shed for forestry operations.

Thin end of the wedge indeed. At what point do these sheds become overnight shelters, kitted out like beach huts with calor gas cooking facilities and bunk beds?

I also find it incredible and irreseponsible that you suggest (and councils endorse?) metal containers or, as your guide suggests, caravans. Surely these are one of the worst eyesores for any woodland – rusty, and they look like they’ve been dumped; well-maintained and painted , and they stand out like a sore thumb. At least a timber shed will harmonise with the surroundings, and, once neglected, will eventually biodegrade.